Independence, should mean an end to Welsh Servility.

The BBC may well reading too much into former First Minister Carwyn Jones claiming that . The "shambles" in Westminster is driving curiosity in Welsh independence."

They say. 

Mr Jones will take part in a debate organised by a pro-independence group at the National Eisteddfod, in August.
He will make the case against Wales going its own way, but said he felt there had been "some change" in the mood in the country on the topic.
Siôn Jobbins, of YesCymru - the group organising the event at the Eisteddfod in Llanrwst - welcomed Mr Jones' participation but said Westminster had left Wales poorer.
Mr Jones, who stood down as first minister at the end of last year, said "people who I wouldn't have thought" had told him it was an idea "worth looking at".

"It's all to do with the shambles in Westminster really, that's what's driving it. People are feeling that they've lost faith in what's been happening [there]," he said.

Asked if there had been a change in the mood, he said:

"There's been some change. I think people are curious rather than favourable, because there are lots of issues that would need to be overcome."

But he said it was important "that there is honesty" in terms of what independence means.
The AM for Bridgend said he was not going to the YesCymru debate "to advocate the case for independence, but to explain the practical obstacles that stand in the way".

 Asked what the impediments were for him, and whether it was an emotional attachment to Britain, he replied: "No, it's mainly practical.

"I'm a proud Welshman, and I think that Wales is best served by being within the union of the UK - not the current union, I think a lot of work needs to be done to make it more equal than it is now.
"I don't see what advantages independence would give us if I'm honest. We'd have less money and we couldn't make that up in the short term. Ireland took many many years to do that.
"And some people say 'well it's an opportunity for us to do a separate deal with Europe, and have access to the single market'. Of course, our biggest market, in terms of a country, is England.
"There's very little point in having, shall we say, market access to the single market and finding we can't export to England."

Hold on to that . What Carwyn seems to be saying   is that even an Independent Wales , would still be governed by current Xenophobic , English Nationalism, that has seen the likelihood we crash out of Europe with a No Deal and if we as an Independent Wales sought to find our was  back into a European single market, England will simply place an Hard boarder between us and Europe and crush us economically.

He added: "I think it's important to have these debates but it's important that the debate takes place between people who have different views.

Vaughan Roderick, BBC Welsh affairs editor

 There was a time where almost every set-piece speech by Carwyn Jones seemed to include the claim that he was "proud to be Welsh and proud to be British" so his admission that his opposition to Welsh independence is practical rather than emotional marks a significant shift in his position.The former first minister hasn't become an overnight convert to nationalism though. His intervention is clearly driven by a growing interest in the idea of independence amongst Labour activists.
The decision earlier this year to allow a pro-independence group to stage a fringe meeting at the Welsh Labour conference would have been unthinkable until recently and Mr Jones clearly feels a need to spell out the difficulties any move towards an independent Wales would face.
Mr Jones's word can also be seen as a warning to the UK Government that unless the devolution settlement is modernised calls for independence will only grow

 Mr Jobbins said YesCymru was "very glad" the former first minister was taking part

 He claimed that, whatever people's opinions, it was "a question that's going to land on our lap in the next few years", speculating that there may be a successful independence vote in Scotland and a vote to unite Northern Ireland with the Republic of Ireland.

"We'd be left in the situation where we'd have a rump UK which is basically England and Wales, and under that situation I can't see how devolution can survive.
"At the moment Wales is one of the poorest regions, in the economic sense in Europe, and that's with Westminster rule.
"We're in the situation we are today because we are governed through Westminster. I can't see how anyone can make the case, that we would be worse off than if we were independent.
"As a Welsh nationalist I'm not looking to put up border posts. I would foresee free-movement of goods and people".

Mr Jobbins said YesCymru was a "non-party political movement" with a "sole aim to make the case for an independent Wales".
"We are under no illusion about the mountain we have to climb," he said. "We are against centuries of lack of self-belief, and also economic policies and an ideology that have mitigated against creating a stronger economy and society".
But former Welsh Conservative leader Andrew RT Davies pointed to low figures for support for independence in opinion polls.

"Perhaps the only people getting more curious about such a prospect are former first ministers residing in the Bay bubble", he tweeted.

Carwyn Jones views resembles the argument, that an abused person should not leave the environment where they are living under, because they would still be financially dependent on their abuser.

But it does mean that we need to examine the whole Welsh economy regarding our relationship with our nearest neighbour and establish whether we export more to England than we import or vice versa.

Just as the issue of the Irish boarder ( or UK boarder in Ireland as it should be called) has not , really examined the logistics of both a Hard Boarder  with Ireland and not just in relationship to the Irish Republic and Norther Ireland an Independent Wales  would surely find some kind of Trade agreement with England even if we  were members of the EU and the latter still living their WTO fantasy. 

Such an argument as Carwyn, makes however valid, seems to be that we accept our servile existence.