Friday, 3 February 2017

Canadian PM Trueadau show how PR is dropped once you win.

On Tuesday I commented on the by the Welsh Government  to allow  Welsh local authorities would be able to choose their own voting systems.

I was sceptical over whether it would work , writing that
 I am not sure if allowing councils to choose their own voting system is right , is Mr Drakeford proposing we have different systems in Gwynedd and Merthyr? it seems that it will be used by some councils particularity Labour run ones to preserve their hegemony and the only move is when  they temporally lose power and a different party take the opportunity  to change the rules.
It something that John Dixon over at Borthlas went into 

In theory, it’s possible that council areas could end up see-sawing between voting systems, depending on whether the ruling group after any given election was for or against STV. In practice, I suspect that getting a sufficient majority under STV to reverse a decision to adopt it will be a much harder task than getting a majority under FPTP to adopt STV. In short, any changes are likely to flow in only one direction.Some commenters seem to assume that where those parties in favour of STV are in power (essentially, Plaid and the Lib Dems), the change will be made, and where they’re not, the councils will remain under the FPTP system. I suspect that’s rather an oversimplification, because of the way that STV plays out in different types of area. As far as the Lib Dems are concerned, their influence in Welsh local government at the moment is so limited that consideration of their position is largely irrelevant, although that may change in the future, of course. The position of Plaid is rather more complicated.
As he pointed out although Plaid appear to be strongly in favour of STV

The councils where Plaid is either in control or the leading party (Gwynedd, Carmarthen, Ceredigion) are all essentially rural counties, and there is a feeling in many areas that existing single member wards are already geographically large. Combining three or four existing wards into single much larger new wards is unlikely to be popular, even assuming that the seemingly relentless pressure to reduce the total numbers of councillors ceases. It is likely to make councillors appear even more remote from the people they represent.It’s not an argument which sways me against STV; even recognising the difficulties, I still favour STV because I believe that it produces a fairer and more democratic result. But it would be naïve to think that individual councillors who have been elected on the basis of their support and activity in one area are suddenly going to enthuse over the possibility that they will have to fight elections in a much bigger area where they are considerably less well-known. And council groups are composed of dozens of such individual members – persuading those groups to adopt the change may not be entirely straightforward.So, whilst in principle I welcome the way in which the Labour government in Cardiff has opened the door to a more democratic system of voting, I’m not going to hold my breath in expectation that it will be adopted anywhere. And for Plaid, for whom this probably looks like something of a concession, it may turn out to be more of a curse than a blessing, if they can’t actually get their groups in the relevant areas to implement it.
 Changing your view on PR is something that seems to happen when a opposition party win power.
Recent Canada Prime Minister Justin Trudeau broke a significant campaign promise to reform the country’s electoral system, in a move an opposition party called a “betrayal.”
Trudeau on Wednesday told Minister of Democratic Institutions Karina Gould that there were no longer plans to overhaul the country’s electoral system, abandoning his 2015 election campaign promise that Canada would have a new voting system by the 2019 election. He said there was no clear consensus on establishing a new voting system.
“There is no consensus on how, or even whether, to reform our electoral system,” he said in the House of Commons during Question Period, the Toronto Star reported.
Trudeau in 2015 vowed to change the current first-past-the-post voting system, which generally benefits conservatives who vote in a block for the Conservative Party of Canada, and leaves out smaller and more liberal parties. Trudeau himself is the leader of the Liberal Party.
The opposition New Democrats said Trudeau lied to progressive voters when he made the promise during his campaign.
“What Mr. Trudeau proved himself today was to be a liar,” New Democratic party member of parliament Nathan Cullen told reporters, according to Reuters.

As a supporter of PR it seems that if we were to allow councils to chose for themselves , what electoral system they can use. It would lead to Parties putting forward different arguments in different  parts of Wales.

We have an example of how STV works in local authority elections (specifically) including rural areas in Scotland and Ireland .

I suggest that we paid some interest in how it works in both,

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