When Neil Hamuilton shamed Kirsty and D.E.T.

Senedd Home have luckily for us given us a detailed coverage  of the  Welsh Assembly vote condemning  Spanish “heavy-handedness” during the attempts to hold a Independence  in Catalonia,

The Plaid Cymru Motion was rather mild


The Senedd:

• Notes the strong links between Wales and Catalonia dating back to the Spanish Civil War.
• Notes the vote of the Catalan Parliament to hold an independence referendum.
• Regrets the heavy-handed response by the Spanish Government and resulting imprisonment of elected Catalan representatives.
• Supports the right of parliaments in the EU to make decisions for the future of their citizens.

 
As Senedd Home points out 

Firstly  the motion carries no weight. Foreign policy is the responsibility of the UK Government, who are in turn supporting the Spanish Government.
Secondly, the motion is neutral on the issue of Catalan independence; it neither backs the October referendum or the result – only acknowledging that it took place.


The Welsh Government Response was a very if not expected stance
Leader of the House, Julie James (Lab, Swansea West)

• It’s not the Welsh Government’s position to express a view on internal matters in Catalonia or Spain – but it is legitimate for AMs to express opinions on democratic principles.
• Spain deserves credit for being a model for transitioning from a dictatorship to a democracy in a relatively short space of time

The Welsh Government abstained – because the Leader of the House said they didn’t want to be seen to be interfering in the affairs of another state – but gave backbench Labour AMs a free vote.

  Red ae Lab, Green Plaid, Yellow Lib Dem, and Purple Ukip.

 So both Liberal Democrat Kirsty Williams  and former Plaid leader  Dafydd Elis Thomas (D.E.T) followed the Welsh Government line.

I doubt if voting for the motion would have been a sacking issue and it would be  handy  to see  some sort of explanation from both considering they both presumable  still hold some candle for democracy.

There were some worthy  elements  in favour of teh motion.
 
Lee Waters AM (Lab, Llanelli)
  For: It’s a matter of democracy.

• It’s not just a matter for nationalists – he doesn’t support Catalan independence – but democrats; a principle of consent is central to any democracy.
• To the UK Government’s credit, it respected the desires of the Scottish people to hold a referendum on secession – though that’s not the same everywhere.
• He was “disgusted” by the European Union, which stood silent while a constituent nation was trampled over.

Neil Hamilton AM (UKIP, Mid & West Wales) For: The Spanish Constitution isn’t fit for purpose.

• “A nation is a nation that feels it’s a nation”; the right to self-determination is enshrined in the UN Charter and that includes Wales.
• The ghost of General Franco still hovers over the Spanish political system; the constitution needs to change.

 Cynics may may think that support for Catalonia from Ukip is more about causing trouble for the EU than backing democracy, but  it comes to something when Hamilton shames both Kirsty Williams and Dafydd Elis Thomas

 

Mick Antoniw AM (Lab, Pontypridd) For: The rule of law is paramount.

• While he commemorated the International Brigades in Cardiff, people in Spain were making fascist salutes and singing Franco-era songs.
• This isn’t about Catalan independence but rule of law and a constitution that represents the will of the people.
• Disappointed the UK Government adopted a hypocritical position where they’ve previously supported the right of self-determination in the Falklands, Gibraltar and elsewhere, but not this.

Mick has been prominent on this issue and desevres praise
What about those opposed
 
David Melding AM (Con, South Wales Central) Against: The Catalan Government aren’t blameless; secession isn’t justified.

• The Catalan Government failed to create an environment where those who oppose independence could express their views.
• Secession referendums in the UK only proceed when both sides agree; that didn’t happen.
• He believes the charges of sedition tabled at independence supporters are “foolish”.
• Very few political philosophers accept the principle of secession; it seems unjustified as long as a multi-national state is democratic.

David who has been the most pro-devolution  Conservative AM disappoint me , Those who opposed  Independence  were denied  the chance to express a view  because they were told by the Spanish Government  that they would  physically prevent the vote.

 

As for  "Very few political philosophers accept the principle of secession; it seems unjustified as long as a multi-national state is democratic". I don't understand this  argument at all .

 

Denying the right of secession to those who have a belief they have a historic right particually to regain Nationhood by a majority  is hardly democratic in my view

 

Plaid AM Simon Thomas  Invited David Melding to return to William & Mary College (as an alumnus) and say the same things to Americans who dared to declare independence from the UK.

 

Some may say that the whole vote was meaningless , but it is important for us to see who stands with a Catalonia in their right to vote for independence and those like Dafydd Elis Thomas and Kirsty Williams  who seems to have abandoned  issues they would have  previously  supported  for a place on the Government Benches.