tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2133809191630290599.post7674304513579927944..comments2023-08-19T16:44:23.150+01:00Comments on National Left: Leanne calls for a progressive -left English Party.glynbeddauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09933352430631144936noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2133809191630290599.post-61170716556819341482013-07-04T10:59:53.661+01:002013-07-04T10:59:53.661+01:00According to Plaid Wrecsam the media coverage (and...According to Plaid Wrecsam the media coverage (and therefore Glyn's post) is a little bit misleading. Only one throwaway reference was made in the speech to an English party. The rest of it, which Arfon has written up on the Plaid Wrecsam blog, makes much more sense and is a really refreshing message. I don't think Plaid has got a finished article yet on England but they need to start discussing it. I wouldn't be surprised if more English support independence than the Welsh do, because they've obviously got the economic criteria to sustain it, "thanks" to the City of London.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2133809191630290599.post-8831119583781698202013-07-04T10:03:16.348+01:002013-07-04T10:03:16.348+01:00Anonymous 2 - (Im Anonymous #1 !) - I don't th...Anonymous 2 - (Im Anonymous #1 !) - I don't think Leanne is the problem at all... I'm just saying she's average.<br /><br />And yes, she is the 2nd most well known Leader. That is not suprising really is it? Plaid is the only proper Welsh-only party, that means the leader of Plaid should be unique and much more recognisable than RT or Kirsty. Most people in Wales probably don't even know that there is such a thing as a leader of Welsh Tories or Welsh Libs. They just think the leader's are cameron and clegg.<br /><br />It would be pretty disasterous if Leanne wasn't the second most recongniseable. Wyn Jones maybe wasn't, I don't know, but come on he was hardly Mr Charisma was he? (And I say that as being a fan of him!).<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2133809191630290599.post-68365970977972761482013-07-03T13:05:33.416+01:002013-07-03T13:05:33.416+01:00Unfortunately, we don't have a choice in the m...Unfortunately, we don't have a choice in the matter. Welsh not Britishhttp://www.welshnotbritish.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2133809191630290599.post-12149863374539477792013-07-03T09:26:53.836+01:002013-07-03T09:26:53.836+01:00Leanne also made many references to Cornwall, Meby...Leanne also made many references to Cornwall, Mebyon Kernow and the right to self determination for the Cornish in her speech, sadly not quoted here. When speaking of England and devolved powers please remember that being lumped in with the English, or having references to Cornwall dropped from important statements is something that limits the public perception about Cornwall, which i'm sure anyway is not the intention here, but all the same. If people wish to read what Leanne said about Cornwall, Mebyon Kernow and devolution/self determination for Cornwall please visit- mebyonkernow.blogspot.co.ukAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04722272085112097070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2133809191630290599.post-6330086199977963492013-07-03T08:16:27.513+01:002013-07-03T08:16:27.513+01:00That is your opinion and you're entitled to it...That is your opinion and you're entitled to it. I don't think it's accurate.<br /><br />We know for example from the last Yougov poll for ITV Wales that Leanne is second most popular party leader, after Carwyn Jones. She is also second most well-known, ahead of RT Davies and Kirsty, although the gap is much closer. Carwyn is admittedly miles ahead on both counts. <br /><br />The reason Plaid are third rather than second, in contrast to Leanne being second, is because of non-leadership factors. Certainly nothing to do with FMQs. Also, the reason she is popular amongst Plaid members is that if you meet her in person she's unique.<br /><br />So "the problem" isn't her, but there's definitely something else that stops Plaid breaking above the 20% mark in Assembly elections.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2133809191630290599.post-78689477285940712972013-07-02T20:56:41.852+01:002013-07-02T20:56:41.852+01:00I don't intend to be rude about this, but the ...I don't intend to be rude about this, but the problem is that Leanne is really not all that good. That's certainly not to say she is terrible or anything. She is OK. In truth, she is over sold by Plaid (which is understandable). If you read comments by Plaid members, you would think she was some sort of Obama like character! But, then you see her speeches, see her in the Senedd (she is the worst out of the opposition leaders in FMQs), see her in interviews, and she is well, a bit average at best. <br /><br />There is no comparison with Alex Salmond. Salmond is one of, if not THE, most formidable politician in the UK. Leanne's nowhere near one of the best even in the Senedd.<br /><br />Just my opinion of course.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2133809191630290599.post-78445504983301962542013-07-02T18:09:07.126+01:002013-07-02T18:09:07.126+01:00I share some of Anonymous at 09:31's points on...I share some of Anonymous at 09:31's points on nationalism. Left-nationalism is broadly doing well, although there are a few countries (Galicia, Wales, Corsica) where it's reached a decent level but can't really progress beyond that. You could also say part of Labour's popularity in Wales is on soft nationalist grounds; having a Plaid-sounding First Minister, appearing to want more powers etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2133809191630290599.post-80715263596175802572013-07-02T17:53:20.648+01:002013-07-02T17:53:20.648+01:00I have to say i'm not really into Wales going ...I have to say i'm not really into Wales going through "pain and suffering" as Welsh Not British says, just to make a political point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2133809191630290599.post-57824599595664813322013-07-02T09:31:27.841+01:002013-07-02T09:31:27.841+01:00I'm not too sure why Leanne is bothering. It&#...I'm not too sure why Leanne is bothering. It's not our problem what happens in England. By coming out with these statements she's tying Plaid into a Anglophone narrative 'for Wales see England'. <br /><br />In any case, there will never be an 'English Plaid Cymru' for three simple reasons:<br /><br />1. Westminster is a First Past the Post system, there's no chance for a smaller left-wing party and Labour won't split. They didn't under Blair they won't under anyone. It's a tribal vote.<br /><br />2. There is no votes in being more left wing. People just don't believe it. Leanne and he Left need to recognise that people are very very angry with the smug left for telling them they are racists to be concerned about immigration. The left just can't understand this because 'internationalism' (at whatever cost is their new 'class struggle'). <br /><br />3. Leanne also needs to understand that the only places where left wing parties are doing well is where those parties are aligned to a nationalist cause - Scotland, Catalonia, Basque Country (Sinn Fein in Irland maybe?). This is not a coincidence. This is because people perfere nationalism to leftwing policies. What nationalism does is fuse state intervention for that stateless nation (Scotland etc) with nation-building of that nation. Nationalism wins votes. In England this dynamic doesn't exist. In fact, England is becoming 'more English' not more British but the English left wing won't embrace this because they're hang-up over 'internatiolism' and against 'Nationalism'. <br /><br />So, there is never ever a chance there'll be a Plaid England nor should Leanne seem so arrogant as to tell the English what they want. Maybe, just maybe, the English prefer the right wing conservative which sands against immigration any day over a left wing internationalists which tells them they are parochial?<br /><br />This dogs has no legs. Plaid Cymru should stop trying to tie itself into the English/British narrative. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2133809191630290599.post-18508885979286345542013-07-02T08:31:11.597+01:002013-07-02T08:31:11.597+01:00I agree with Leanne and sadly perhaps, it's on...I agree with Leanne and sadly perhaps, it's only by saying things about England that a Welsh nationalist can get in any UK paper (and even then only the 'clever' one).<br /><br />I don't think it can or will happen though under England's electoral system, which has no PR.<br /><br />The Common Wealth Party was great. A Plaid Cymru for England. But they had no credibility, activists, finances etc. It's exactly what a progressive English party would have to look like. Not far-left, but more moderate left (like Plaid), and not New Labour. I've always thought the trick is to find the space between New Labour and the far-left. <br /><br />It would also need PR. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2133809191630290599.post-57063649991324917172013-07-02T08:24:54.060+01:002013-07-02T08:24:54.060+01:00Mmmm Common Wealth was a very interesting party - ...Mmmm Common Wealth was a very interesting party - Tom Driberg was elected with their support during the war time truce between the parties and in the 1960s tried to interest Mick Jagger in becoming the leader! England would certainly have been better off it the party had developedCibwrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621705905770341542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2133809191630290599.post-62022061381299152522013-07-02T08:20:08.493+01:002013-07-02T08:20:08.493+01:00"England outside the overheating centre needs..."England outside the overheating centre needs a voice, and the left needs a party," Wood said. "In Wales we do have an alternative voice, we have a fourth party that vies for power <b>with</b> Labour and, at the very least, <b>keeps it honest.</b>"<br /><br />That's not the sort of thing I want to hear. I want to hear her talk about exposing Labour as the RedTory scumbags that they are. Not cosying up to them.<br /><br />Also the last thing we in Wales want is a nice party in Charge of England (and therefore Wales). We need the complete scumbags we have now and the scumbags who'll most likely replace them in a few years.<br /><br />Unfortunately for Wales we need to go through far more pain and suffering before we wake up and realise that Labour are nothing more than an English regionalist party that hate Wales and the people of Wales.Welsh not Britishhttp://www.welshnotbritish.comnoreply@blogger.com